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Is anyone interested in a better Q2 Kit?

8 years 3 weeks ago #1501 by NateD2
I guess you could say the Q2/Q200 can not be built from plans alone. As there are some gaps and blanks missing. BUT, it is an experimental so you can fill those gaps in on your own.

I generated the 3D models you've seen posted from nothing more than the plans I bought from Dan. It is important to remember that no 2 Q2s are alike. With that said you have to really understand what a kit means.

I recommend you goto Oshkosh and see what is out there and also look at some Q2s in person if you haven't already. I did that and it answered a lot of questions I had regarding visualizing the Q2 build process and wings/canard.

With that said I personally don't think a kit is needed. It depends on your goal, how long you are willing to spend building it and how fast you want to be flying.

If you want to be flying soon find a Q2/Q200 for sale and buy it.

If you enjoy the building process you can find a kit for sale or start from scratch as I was doing in 3D in the computer. The fuselage is mostly an empty shell.

When you buy the plans you'll see that there are two halves to the fuselage 'bathtub' and you cut and splice them together then add the seat back and other bulkheads and slowly glass and epoxy the rest of the interior.

You can pretty much make the entire fuselage on your own with some patience and a bit of know how. I'm not going to say its easy (as that implies fast), but again if you can handle carpentry and know how to properly lay up fiber glass it isn't that difficult. Just time consuming. If you haven't already done so goto Oshkosh and attend the composites workshop they will show you the very basics of a layup.

However many on the forum can provide some tips from actually building.

There is no substitute for building. I'd say if you aren't sure buy $100 worth of composites and give it a whirl to make something you need in the shop from fiber glass. Just be sure to use epoxy and not the resin you buy at the auto store which is polyester resin and not suited or similar to what is used for a Q2.

If you feel comfortable with epoxy and glass you could attempt your own fuselage. Somewhere there are pictures of the plans built Q2.

It might be worth buying a set of plans and seeing how usable you think they are. They aren't terribly expensive and you can at least get an idea what you are in for.

I did a google search for 'Q200 aircraft kit' and clicked google's images button to browse the pictures. There are various stages of construction shown. This gives an idea what an unfinished Q2 looks like. to me it literally looks like I could build it from plywood. Which isn't too far off as the foam used typically starts in sheets.

To answer your question. The plans are not complete enough to build one as they direct. However if you are comfortable fabricating your own parts you can build one from plans. I just advise caution in doing so and work with others who have built actual kits to make sure important details are correct.

The plans do contain most of the important information on assembling the parts. I would take a look at the plans if I were you and decide from there.

What is your time frame for this project?

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8 years 3 weeks ago #1503 by California Dave
Wow, thanks Nate. That's exactly the information I was looking for- thank you!

I have experience doing everything on your list except for composites (I've only done surfboard repair and really basic fiberglass lay-ups). Creating accurate molds for laying-up a fuselage was something I was hoping to avoid, because of the time investment required. I enjoy learning new methods & materials, so learning composites would be fulfilling- it's just the prospect of creating molds/jigs from incomplete plans that makes me hesitate.

Since I'm not an A&P, and I have yet to meet an A&P who would sign off on a homebuilt aircraft annual condition inspection, I am probably looking at buying an old kit or a plane that is not completed so that I can annual it myself.

I'm in Northern California and so I will try to find someone up here who wouldn't mind showing me around their Q2..

I really appreciate your having taken the time to post such a thorough response.


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8 years 3 weeks ago #1504 by NateD2
If you've worked with surfboards you already have enough experience that I say dive in and don't be afraid. No mater how you slice it building an airplane is a time investment. Of course it depends if you want a jeep/tractor or a luxury show piece with leather interior when you are done.

You'll no doubt want to build a few surfboards with epoxy and glass to get the feel for it.

Don't let the idea of molds scare you away. Rutan's famous for 'mold less construction'. Which is basically making a surfboard... ie wrapping a piece of foam in glass/carbon and wetting it with epoxy, using a light weight filler (epoxy and hollow glass micro spheres). This is how the wings are made (sort of). The fuselage is sandwich construction, and is a bit different than boat hull construction.

The only major difference I suppose is that surfboards typically use polyester resin and aircraft epoxy and of course you have to be more careful in how you do the layup to get an airworthy structure when you are done.

As Dan mentioned Richard (who I also know) has the molds for the Q2. I e-mailed him and confirmed he still has them. So there is hope to have a new 'kit' made.

If not the plans built Q2 that was mentioned a few posts ago is built with what I call the barrel method. Basically make a few forming sections using the plan templates to hold the fuselage and then using narrow strips of foam to contour the shape much like boat building. See the post here www.quickheads.com/index.php?option=com_...le&id=838&Itemid=144 , scroll down mid way for the pictures. Also found here web.archive.org/web/20110912000643/http:...ist2.cfm?AlbumID=242

This method is very similar to what I was looking to do. Except I have 3D models now and can generate drawings of them. So I was going to make a bit easier to work with drawings and have them laser cut to fit together. Sort of like making a wooden barrel.

One of the reasons I didn't get further with my effort was that I wanted to change a few things on the design. That quickly turned into a list of things I wanted different and eventually made a different aircraft altogether.... but I have some CAD files...

Let me know if this helps at all.

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8 years 3 weeks ago - 8 years 3 weeks ago #1505 by California Dave
[EDIT] I was posting as you were posting Nate- thank you for filling in the gaps regarding how things would have to be done in this instant if I were to attempt a build without a kit. I saw the pictures of the "barrel mold" and it would not be outside of my abilities, just another huge time commitment. Who knows- maybe I will end up going that route. But there is a new possibility-

I have located a Q-200 kit (and thanks for the links, Nate) not far from where I live.

I've never actually seen a complete kit though- how do I know if everything is there, and what else should I be looking for in one of these 30+ year kits?

How do you determine condition of composite parts- is there any inspection that I can perform beyond a simple visual inspection of the pieces? If a piece is damaged or has some kind of "storage rash", can I assume that it be repaired safely?

Did the factory assemble anything, or is the kit simply composed of hardware, molded fuselage pieces and stacks of foam?

I reviewed the QUICKIE NEWSLETTER 23 page 4- it contains information regarding what each kit package contains and what the plans should contain, but there is not a detailed list for each package (Package A, 1B, and 2).

Is there anyone who has purchased a kit out there who might be able to give me a little guidance on this?

Once again, thank you.

Last edit: 8 years 3 weeks ago by California Dave.

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8 years 3 weeks ago #1506 by NateD2
Best thing to do is make a new thread and ask users what to look for.

Think about surfboards that are old what do you look for?

I would say look for signs of sun degradation in the epoxy. However usually before you can put a finish coat of paint on the you have to prep the surface. Others on the forum could probably help tell you how to prep an old kit for paint. I presume once it is prepped you would want to put a thin coat of new epoxy on it. Again ask around.

As far as missing parts go... these are simple aircraft and you can always fabricate any brackets or hardware missing. If it comes to anything you think MIGHT be safety critical ask before you do/finish.

Overall these aircraft are pretty simple from everything I've heard/read about them. There are also enough of them completed that if you get stuck you can always find one to look at (though you may have to fly a bit to see one).

The one link I attached shows how they were shipped from what I can tell. photos.imageevent.com/qdf_files/quickiep...20ebay%20Quickie.pdf

They are quite simple. As far as I've been able to tell the bulk of the effort is in glassing everything into position and then prepping for paint. I would definitely go to Oshkosh this year to look at finished aircraft. The past two years there were partially finished kits in the flea market section.

Hope this helps.

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