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Q1 Parts List.

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14 years 6 months ago #717 by admin
Replied by admin on topic Re:Q1 Parts List.
Hi Rob,
You're being a little tough on the spreadsheet and the plans for that matter. :) The panel layout and the suggested instruments are listed on the large template sheets which would explain why they aren't in the plans. If you've only seen the free plans (or purchased a set of the "free" plans on eBay) then you haven't seen all of the information available.

The purpose of this collaboration is to improve the spreadsheet, and make suggestions that would allow a scratch builder to find appropriate replacement parts for those that are no longer manufactured. I hope that's clear.

The spreadsheet was made by others in the Quickie community so I can't vouche for it's throurougness or validity, but I do think it's a good starting point for discussion.

Steve,
The point about the RAE epoxy amounts is well taken and you are probably right that they should be reversed. I don't think that the RAE system is available any more either. For my Q-200 I am using Aeropoxy, and I think others are using the West Epoxy System. This should be noted on the spreadsheet as well.

Fast and Slow hardeners are available for both systems I'm pretty sure. I appreciate you both taking a look, keep me posted on your progress.

Warm regards,
Dan Yager
www.quickheads.com

Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that?

— Captain Picard, from 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' episode 'Booby Trap.'

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14 years 6 months ago - 14 years 6 months ago #718 by haiqu
Replied by haiqu on topic Re:Q1 Parts List.
SteveC68 wrote:

The spreadsheet indicates there is an RAES and an RAEF resin, yet the plans indicate there is an RAE resin and you make it RAES (slow cure) and RAEF (fast cure) by adding either slow or fast hardener. I would guess the total amount of resin needed would be 8 gallons sum of the two different types on the spreadsheet, but that's just a guess. Then 7 quarts of fast hardener and 1 quart of slow. That last part seems backwards to me as after reading through the plans a couple of times the majority of the plane is both assembled and covered with slow cure.

Steve


A lot would depend on the ambient temperature when you're laying up, as well as how experienced you are at using epoxy. RAEF tends to exotherm badly and damage the foam at joins.

RAES/RAEF has been unavailable for decades. Rutan went to Hexcel Epolite (Safe-T-Poxy) at first then, when that was shown to have skin sensitivity issues, other types were tested.

The West System was never recommended for composite aircraft structures, contrary to many people's misconceptions. It was recommended for the VariViggen as a good epoxy for wood finishes, and also as a finishing product on the VariEze and LongEZ to save time with micro filling. Read your CP's carefully!!

The current direct equivalent of Safe-T-Poxy is E-Z-Poxy. This doesn't help builders outside of the continental USA since any epoxy is a hazardous material and must be shipped by surface packages, which takes months.

I'm in contact with the local distributor of West System for possible equivalent products available in Australia.

In the end, you will have to do structural testing unless you happen to know the specs and results of Burt's "coupon test" methods. I sure haven't been able to find out this information.
Last edit: 14 years 6 months ago by haiqu.

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14 years 6 months ago - 14 years 6 months ago #719 by haiqu
Replied by haiqu on topic Re:Q1 Parts List.
admin wrote:

Hi Rob,
You're being a little tough on the spreadsheet and the plans for that matter. :) The panel layout and the suggested instruments are listed on the large template sheets which would explain why they aren't in the plans. If you've only seen the free plans (or purchased a set of the "free" plans on eBay) then you haven't seen all of the information available.

The purpose of this collaboration is to improve the spreadsheet, and make suggestions that would allow a scratch builder to find appropriate replacement parts for those that are no longer manufactured. I hope that's clear.

The spreadsheet was made by others in the Quickie community so I can't vouche for it's throurougness or validity, but I do think it's a good starting point for discussion.

Warm regards,
Dan Yager
www.quickheads.com


Hi Dan,

Bad information is worse than no information. As pointed out to me by Leon McAtee in an email yesterday, the quantities for AL tubing and 2024-T3 sheet are also completely wrong. Where would you use 6' x 6' of sheet in a Quickie? This sort of thing could put one off building, since it's very expensive stuff, or worse you may end up buying the stuff and be stuck with it.

I have owned a Quickie and seen the original plans. They're kiddie drawings, but that's what you got in 1978. To be fair, Jim Bede's plans for the Litestar Pulse Autocycle were a lot worse. No way it could have been registered here off plans with NO structural engineering data at all.

video.google.com.au/videosearch?hl=en&as...p&ct=title&resnum=4#

I'm completely overhauling the spreadsheet based on materials available in Australia so the results won't be generally useful, however will continue to point out anomalies. Here's another one: CASA regulations require airspeed indicators in KNOTS only. Not MPH or even dual scale.

Rob
Last edit: 14 years 6 months ago by haiqu.

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14 years 6 months ago #720 by admin
Replied by admin on topic Re:Q1 Parts List.
Rob,
I'm not arguing with you. The original spreadsheet is incorrect, that is why I started this thread, to help correct the bad information.

The original spreadsheet, still serves a purpose of having a starting point from which to begin discussing anomolies. So I think it still has value, and we all appreciate any insights you might have.

If any of you have made changes to the spreadsheet, I hope you will upload a new version (with a description of changes) when you're finished. That was the original intent. I think that the list will get better only if we can share information like this.

When we get an updated list completed, I would like to turn it into a web page that will link the parts back to the Aircraft Spruce website. If this website can provide some sales volume to them, they may offer the community a discount which again would help everyone.

I REALLY appreciate all of the time you've put into this, and I hope you all appreciate having this website as a resource.

I will be taking over as the editor for the Quickie Builders Association in 2010 and I would really like to make the community more collaborative.

Instead of 200 guys working on the same stuff individually, we could collaborate and get the work and knowledge disseminated A LOT Quicker. (No pun intended.) ;)

I want this website to serve as a central (continuously improving) location to get any information or parts you might need to build any of the Q's from scratch. (Eventually) I have even opened up this website to guys like Leon McAtee to sell his parts from the online store, if he so chooses.

If we all stop holding our cards so close to our chest, we'll be able to gather together ALL of the 20-30 years of experience that the community has gained since the designs first came out. :)

IMHO: That would be much better than having the information scattered all over the place and having builders go off half-cocked!

At least that's my hopelessly idealistic vision going forward! LOL! I invite your feedback even about that.

Cheers,
Dan Yager
www.quickheads.com

Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that?

— Captain Picard, from 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' episode 'Booby Trap.'

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14 years 6 months ago - 14 years 6 months ago #721 by SteveC68
Replied by SteveC68 on topic Re:Q1 Parts List.
I wouldn't use West Systems either I would use MGS, it has better viscosity and longer pot life and stays thin longer than any other. It's mechanical properties are better than Saf-T-Poxy. Or I might use ProSet (good enough for SpaceShip 1 good enough for me). I probably wouldn't put a lot of stock in the "testing" that was done in the design of the Q1 back in the 70's. Have you seen their "wind tunnel"? There is a picture of it in the plans. The load test was a bunch of guys standing on the wing. I don't recall reading, seeing or hearing about any destructive testing done either. Remember that composites were in their infancy at the time so everything was "experimental". I would love to see Rutan's engineering notes on the Q1.
Last edit: 14 years 6 months ago by SteveC68.

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14 years 6 months ago - 14 years 6 months ago #722 by haiqu
Replied by haiqu on topic Re:Q1 Parts List.
admin wrote:


If any of you have made changes to the spreadsheet, I hope you will upload a new version (with a description of changes) when you're finished. That was the original intent. I think that the list will get better only if we can share information like this.


My version of the spreadsheet will only be useful to Australian builders, of whom there are currently none. In fact there are only two in flying condition in the whole of Aus/NZ, and two more being repaired currently.

When we get an updated list completed, I would like to turn it into a web page that will link the parts back to the Aircraft Spruce website. If this website can provide some sales volume to them, they may offer the community a discount which again would help everyone.


I doubt this will do many people good, unless they live in close proximity to each other. The cost of shipping from Wicks or AS&S usually makes up 20% of the cost for overseas buyers. Which is why I'm seeking alternative sources of materials, something which didn't exist at all in 1978 when I first contemplated building a Rutan airplane.

I REALLY appreciate all of the time you've put into this, and I hope you all appreciate having this website as a resource.

I will be taking over as the editor for the Quickie Builders Association in 2010 and I would really like to make the community more collaborative.

Instead of 200 guys working on the same stuff individually, we could collaborate and get the work and knowledge disseminated A LOT Quicker. (No pun intended.) ;)

I want this website to serve as a central (continuously improving) location to get any information or parts you might need to build any of the Q's from scratch. (Eventually) I have even opened up this website to guys like Leon McAtee to sell his parts from the online store, if he so chooses.

If we all stop holding our cards so close to our chest, we'll be able to gather together ALL of the 20-30 years of experience that the community has gained since the designs first came out. :)

IMHO: That would be much better than having the information scattered all over the place and having builders go off half-cocked!

At least that's my hopelessly idealistic vision going forward! LOL! I invite your feedback even about that.


You're preaching to the choir here. :-)

Rob
Last edit: 14 years 6 months ago by haiqu.

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