Q1_Aircraft: Re: [Q1_Aircraft] Digest Number 348

Roger/Stan
I agree there is no inherent limit in an engine, but you can't really compare
these limited made 032, 042, 084 against a VW or almost any other engine
which have had many millions made. The are all kinds of after market hot rod
parts
made for VW, Chevy, Ford, etc. But not much has been made for airplane
engines or these very limited made 032, 042, 084 engines. About all you can do
is
shave the heads to increase compression, maybe have the cam reground, and change
the carb, add headers, and a better air filter setup and maybe add electronic
ignition to boost HP. After doing all that you probably have the samr $$$ as
just buying a good used Rotax with redrive. Like I said the 084 only makes MAX
46HP. Most of these engines weren't designed to be hot rodded. There is not
enough material to bore them out, add bigger valves, etc. They also are limited
on how much heat transfer they will handle. If you want to spend big $$$ you
can modify almost anything, but then I think we lose focus what were trying to
do here, have a cheap, reliable, power plant that meats our needs, 20HP,
25HP, 30HP, 35HP, etc. Even guys with 0-200's have heat problems and it only
makes
100HP.
Rich Gillen
=======================================================
> 1f. Re: 032 6 H.P. @ 3,600 RPM(USG Rating)
> Posted by: 'Isaksson Roger' scratchdeeper@... scratchdeeper
> Date: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:47 am ((PST))
>
> Well I just question the old 'truth' about 0.5 hp per cu inch.
>
> I am pretty sure that this was a truth in the old days, and may actually
> apply to some certified engines as well, as you are not able to change
> certified engines.
>
> However, there are no inherent limit in an engine that says that you can
> only take out 0.5 hp out of it.
>
> With 80 octane avgas, and 5.5 compression ratio this was pretty much the
> standard back then.
>
> Chances are you own a car or a lawnmower that is getting much more HP out
> of those cu inces than 0.5 hp per cu inch.
>
> Any modern industrial engine, today (and yes, they have an RPM band
> suitable for direct drive) have more than 0.5 hp per cu inch, and those engies
are
> designed to do hoooours of long haul.
>
> If you take, like we're talking about here, the AO32, and fix it up in
> performance comparable to a modern aircooled VW direct drive engine, you shoud
> come pretty much into the 20 hp range.
>
> That would not be a very hot tuning, but a tuning that would be comparable
> to the tuning the modern VW engies are tuned to.
>
> The AO32 is a bit over 500 cc, an 80 horse VW is around 2 liter.
>
> So it is not any inherent, built in, redline, or mechanical or physical law
> that will prevent an engine to be developed passed 0.5 hp per cu inch. The
> VW , and most other modern engines are a daily testament to that.
>
> The 0.5 hp per cu inch was pretty much a law when it was a law that you
> could not fly faster than the speed of sound.
>
> Some got close to those speeds with catastrophic results, with the
> airplanes of those days, so that became a law.
>
> How the 0.5 hp per cu inch became a law, I dont know, but it's for sure far
> far from the truth today.
>
> Stan Susman < stanpfa@... > wrote:
> An old(fart) A P told me when I was just a youngin that any direct
> drive aero motor should be able to make about .5 HP per inch with mild c/r. so
> O-84= 42 O-42=21
> O-32 = 16 Works for me and it cheaper then a dyno. that begs the question,
> what's the weight of an O-42
>
> Stan Susman < stanpfa@... > wrote:
>
>
> Isaksson Roger < scratchdeeper@... > wrote: The AO32 have two ratings a
> military standard. The peak rating is 10.8 and the 'continous use' is 6 hp.
>
> Armilite@... wrote: Hello Ryan:
>
> This info is off saturnsurplus.com/engine/engine.htm web site. That
> engine only makes 6hp@3600RPM. Now I'm pretty sure that rating is a
> 10,000ft. I
> would bet your turning less RPM's in the Q1. I would guess max HP in
> airplane
> trim is only 15HP. Check with the guys on surpluss engine group.
>
> The 4A084-4 is rated at 20 H.P. @ 3,600 RPM(USG Rating) Now I'm pretty sure
> that rating is a 10,000ft also. The guys at surpluss engines rate the 084 in
>
> airplane trim at MAX 46HP.
>
> There is a 2A042-3 rated at 10 H.P. @ 3,600 RPM(USG Rating) I'm pretty sure
> that rating is also at 10,000ft. $650 at this web site. This engine I think
> would be better suited to your purpose. In airplane trim I would guess MAX
> HP
> around 22-24HP. Check with the guys on surpluss engine group. This engine
> may
> weight more than a 032.
>
> What is the maximum weight of engine for the Q1?
>
> If you want HP and SPEED the rotax engines sounds like the best solution.
> Subaru EA71 is small, around 60HP. A custom 1 rotor engine made from a Mazda
> 13B
> using AL racing parts instead of cast iron parts, 110HP@7200RPM. :)
>
> Rich Gillen
>
> Manufacturer: Teledyne
> Note: While TCM was the primary contractor for these engines, some were
> manufactured by other companies. All of these engines are built to the same
> specifications, and all parts are interchangeable regardless of manufacturer
> Model Number: 4A032-4
> Part Number: 13206E0000-4
> National Stock Number: 2805-01-276-5946
> Manufacture Date: February 1990
> Engine Type: 4 Cylinder, Air Cooled
> These are NEW (not Refurbished)4 Cylinder, Horizontally Opposed, Air Cooled
> Engines with Overhead Valves, and Electronic Ignition
> Rating: 6 H.P. @ 3,600 RPM(USG Rating)
> Dimensions: Length: 191/8 Inches
> Width: 205/8 Inches
> Height: 153/4 Inches
> Weight: 110 Pounds
> Bore: 2.250 Inch
> Stroke: 2.0 Inch
> Displacement: 32 Cubic Inches; 524.48cc
> Compression: 6.0 to 1
> Other Features: Radio Frequency Suppressed
> Fungus Proofed
> Dual Coil Electronic Ignition
> Technical Specs and Service Manuals Included
> Available Options KeyShaft: $48.50
>
> Manufacturer: Teledyne
> Note: While TCM was the primary contractor for these engines, some were
> manufactured by other companies. All of these engines are built to the same
> specifications, and all parts are interchangeable regardless of manufacturer
> Model Number: 2A042-3
> Part Number: 13206E0500
> National Stock Number: 2805-00-872-5971
> Manufacture Date: Varies: Produced over a long period
> Engine Type: 2 Cylinder, Air Cooled
> These are NEW (not Refurbished) 2 Cylinder, Air Cooled Engines with Overhead
>
> Valves, 24V Electric Starter, and Electronic Ignition
> Rating: 10 H.P. @ 3,600 RPM(USG Rating)
> Dimensions: Length: 19 Inches
> Width: 24 Inches
> Height: 22.10 Inches
> Weight: 205 Pounds
> Displacement: 42 Cubic Inches
> Other Features: Radio Frequency Suppressed
> Fungus Proofed
> Technical Specs and Service Manuals Included
>
> Manufacturer: Teledyne
> Note: While TCM was the primary contractor for these engines, some were
> manufactured by other companies. All of these engines are built to the same
> specifications, and all parts are interchangeable regardless of manufacturer
> Model Number: 4A084-4
> Part Number: 13206E1000-4
> National Stock Number: 2805-01-276-5947
> Manufacture Date: Varies: Produced over a long period
> Engine Type: 4 Cylinder, Air Cooled
> Rating: 20 H.P. @ 3,600 RPM(USG Rating)
> Dimensions: Length: 20 Inches
> Width: 28.5 Inches
> Height: 22.10 Inches
> Weight: 265 Pounds
> Displacement: 84 Cubic Inches
> Other Features: Radio Frequency Suppressed
> Fungus Proofed
>




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