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TOPIC: Is anyone interested in a better Q2 Kit?

Is anyone interested in a better Q2 Kit? 10 years 8 months ago #799

  • NateD2
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Is anyone interested in a better Q2 kit or construction plans?
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Re:Is anyone interested in a better Q2 Kit? 10 years 8 months ago #800

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Hi Nate,
I think everyone here would be interested in a better Q-2/Q-200 kit. However, we've seen several people try to produce them and fail either through lack of funding, know how, perserverence or all three! :)

Please explain what you mean by a better kit? Also explain how you plan to produce a better kit? For example, how do you intend to fund the endevore, and what experience do you have in kit manufacturing?

Have you ever finished building a homebuilt airplane before? What is your experience in this arena?

I'm interested, please elaborate.

Sounds good, just tell me more.

Thanks man,
Dan Yager
www.quickheads.com
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that?

— Captain Picard, from 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' episode 'Booby Trap.'
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Re:Is anyone interested in a better Q2 Kit? 10 years 8 months ago #804

  • NateD2
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From my point of view as a new builder (and as someone who was going to buy a partial project and finish)... there simply isn't enough information to instruct a new builder to build a Q2/Q200 from pure plans.

My initial goal was to recreate the basic geometry to reverse the stability and control characteristics of the plane in hopes of making a slightly bigger Q2.

In the process I realized I would have to recreate nearly the entire plane in 3D. That being the case why not offer the digitized plans or even kits?

My goal at this stage is to simply recreate an entire Q2 in 3D. This allows me to essentially work out all the details of implementation that a normal builder would work out in real materials. It also gives me the ability to update, modify etc... the design where needed to make things easier to construct or to fix problems encountered by other builders.

The net result will be a complete 3D computer model of the Q2 or Q200 that should be accurate right down to the bolts.

Once I accomplish this I will be able to generate a complete fabrication or machining print for every part.

The additional up side to this is that 3D models can be given directly to machinists and parts generated without the limitations of conventional 2D paper prints (which can be very difficult to use in documenting complex parts like the Q2 fuselage).

In reality if someone has a better way to make a part it can be investigated and documented.

From my point of view funding this endeavor is still at least 6 months to a year away for one simple reason: I can build the entire plane in 3D before having to purchase a single material. Of course this assumes I have a set of plans complete enough to perfectly replicate a Q2 in 3D space.

From my experience generating the Fuselage shape in 3D there are quite a few puzzle pieces missing (as indicated in other responses to prospective builders on this site).

What I am looking for is some help filling the gaps in the plans where they exist. Once this is done I will use my own plans to build a Q2 from scratch using whatever new plans I generate.

In terms of monetary cost the 3D model costs me almost nothing. The fuselage I foresee as being inexpensive (in material cost) with avionics being the next most expensive thing and the engine the most expensive thing.

As far as experience goes in kit manufacturing I have minimal. What I do have is an education in Aerospace Engineering. Numerous hours in various types of fabrication (metal, wood, etc..), a background in machining (manual and CNC), welding (Mig/TIG/Stick), engine building (Rotax, GM, and other), electronics, computer programming, Computational Fluid Dynamics, and Finite element analysis. I also have created and machined my own designs for an engine. I also will soon (within the next two weeks) hold my private pilot's rating.

I have not completed a homebuilt airplane before, but with my background I feel it should be possible.

In my past projects I have found that planning a project in 3D saves a lot of time when it comes to actually building. It allows you to solve problems before you buy materials and try design ideas and variations before implementing them.

To me a better kit would be one that is more step by step, better documented with more complete and more accurate dimensioning. It also could mean offering pre-cut foam for the fuselage or perhaps offering CNC cut mechanical parts. Or even pre cut wiring etc..

The plans offered now are decent but they lack details of a material constructed kit (as compared to a component purchased kit). I wish to simply fill in the gaps. At this stage I do not intended on modifying the plans or final design in any way that compromises safety, merely offering better documentation and possibly parts.


What I am looking for is a review panel. Some people who have Q2s/Q200s, are building or have built them who can fill in some gaps and offer some feedback on the progress of the computer model (since I will be extrapolating some details not in the plans the way a builder would).

As I mentioned earlier at present I have essentially followed the details in the plans to construct a preliminary virtual fuselage shape. The next step will be to add real world details such as bulkheads, foam cores, seat details, wings, landing gear, and finally mechanical hardware. What you will notice is that in 3D assembling the fuselage took me about 3-5 days worth of work to do. Far shorter then the real thing probably would have taken. I foresee tracing all the wing and landing gear patterns to be another 3-5 days of work. At which point it is time to revise the model, then proceed to add more details.

If you've read to this point I thank you for taking the time to do so.
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Re:Is anyone interested in a better Q2 Kit? 5 years 5 months ago #1330

Dan.

Whatever became of this persons dream to re-create the aircraft digitally?

Is there any interest in the Q2 shells being re-created or for better words..re-splashed?

My shells are yet unbonded. Still in 4 pieces. The only work done on them was by the previous owner, who did the canopy work but it's not at all complete. A simple screen door hinge on the front. Rather crude. The bulkheads are made and the support cradle tools but that's it.

It would not really be a terribly big problem to make splash tooling from these shells I have now..and I know for sure QAC built them because I have all the bookwork from day one when the original buyer purchased the various kits.


Not a single metal part was included. No engine...some of the foam for the wing and canard. No tube spar. No fiberglass. It is not a lot but it is the shells, plans, and all the paperwork. For my intended build that is ok.. it was from the start a "Franken Q" as you called the other one similar.

I'm not interested into getting into a production mode but maybe there is some good to at least preserving the work done. Digital design is not really as great as one would hope in reality. I dunno if you've done this type of work before or not but I have in CATIA, both V4 and later V5 for many years. There is no special magic inside a modelling system that makes everything "fit perfect" the first time; but it does speed up the ability to head off some problems before first build and to make the unplanned changes that will for sure show up sooner or later, and see if there are other problems created from making those changes (clash). It is also possible to use a function called "cloud" with the correct laser sensors can reverse engineer any part into the digital world in 3D. Sometimes that function can save a lot of time too.

The more direct path from design to the machining cell is probably the best use of a fully digital model. Having a solid model in 3D Space in CATIA for example..the IML and OML of the Q2 shells..this would allow a very accurate set of plug and mold tools to be fabricated if there were a large enough CNC cutting center that could use a mandrel with accurate rotation. A 360 horizontal support fixture with a 5 axis cutting head could create both tools..the plug and female mold.

Amazing how expensive the kit was back in the 80's and how little an aircraft can be purchased now! They did the original shells from splashes of the first Q2. What is the possibility that can be re-created and is it worth the effort?

Vern
Last Edit: 5 years 5 months ago by Goldenhands57.
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Is anyone interested in a better Q2 Kit? 5 years 4 months ago #1331

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Hi Golden,
I haven't heard from Nate in a while so I have no further info on his plans or progress. I know that Richard from FLAPS is very close to offering a complete kit again. That is expected to be announced in April.

I know Richard has a full set of fuselage molds (because I gave them to him) so he should be able to pull shells soon if he isn't already.

My background is in 3D modeling and CGI, but that seems like ages ago. I am still a sucker for seeing other people's work. So if you put anything together I would like to see it. Please keep me posted on your plans as well. I'm all ears!

Thanks,
Dan Yager
QBA Editor
www.quickheads.com
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that?

— Captain Picard, from 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' episode 'Booby Trap.'
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Is anyone interested in a better Q2 Kit? 5 years 2 months ago #1364

  • AZPilot
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I know I'm looking for a set of shells or a way to build my own.
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